The award, received on July 1 say the firm, is for production, delivery, and spare parts for these vehicle sets.
“The M109A7 is the latest howitzer in the BAE Systems M109 family of vehicles, and is the primary indirect fire support system for the Army’s Armored Brigade Combat Teams (ABCT). The M109A7 program provides increased commonality across the ABCT and has significant built-in growth potential for electrical power and weight capacity.”
“Providing the most robust, survivable, and responsive indirect fire support capabilities for the ABCT is a primary focus for our artillery program,” said Scott Davis, vice president of ground vehicles for BAE Systems’ Combat Mission Systems business.
“We are committed to delivering a vehicle that will provide the modernized capabilities the ABCT needs to execute missions with confidence.”
BAE add in a news release that the M109A7 program is “a significant upgrade over the vehicle’s predecessor, the M109A6 Paladin Self-Propelled Howitzer”.
The M109A7 vehicle design includes a new chassis, engine, transmission, suspension, steering system, a new high voltage architecture, and improved survivability.
BAE Systems received the initial contract for M109A7 production in 2017. This most recent order brings the total number of vehicle sets — M109A7 howitzers and M992A3 Carrier, Ammunition, Tracked (CAT) vehicle sets to 310 and the total contract value to $1.9 billion.
M109A7 and M992A3 production and support takes place at the Anniston Army Depot in Alabama and BAE Systems facilities in York, Pa.; Minneapolis, Minn.; Sterling Heights, Mich.; Endicott, N.Y.; Elgin, Okla., and Aiken, S.C..
What is our plan for artillery in the uk? Do we even have one?
As I understand it we are going to order around 116 units. Hanwha is a runner but also Bae’s Archer system. Both have good points so… I do wonder whether rather than scrapping the AS90 we could look at a reserve regiment or two?
Is that just to replace AS90?
I think it’s one for one by 2030’ish. I think we had knocking on for 200 AS90 originally or close to that but numbers have dwindled as always.
There was talk of it also replacing L118 in army reserve units and 4th regiment RA.
Cesar shelling of Snake Island suggests wheels are the way to go. But as you suggest need it be ‘either-or’?
Nice to think so but we’ve got to get this 116 first.
Yes, it WAS 116 guns. But that is a lot for 3 regiments, even including some at the RSA/14 Reg and some for the AR. This programme some believe has fallen victim to a stealth cut numbers wise. One of the regiments that could have operated it is now converting to GMLRS.
There’s more stealth inside the M25 fortress than there is in an F35!
I’m outside of that fortress luckily!
Hopefully 4reg RA also gets some of the replacement, as well as the three army reserve regiments.
It should do, as it’s now with 7 LMBCT.
3 RHA is switching to MLRS, that’s the cut to guns I mentioned to Geoffrey.
If the army got their act together and stopped crap cuts like 3 RLC which is due for the chop while 1 DRSB has no RLC formation to support its artillery regiments. 4 LBCT is devoid of any CS CSS regulars at all and rebuilding them and the RA is priority for me never mind wanting fantasy fleets of tanks.
To be honest I welcome the switch from the light guns to MLRS. It was known 30 years ago that 105mm artillery isn’t effective at penetrating new armour. The light guns should only have been used by the paras and the marines. My only issue with the change is that each regiment will only get 12 MLRS with the 3rd battery being provided by the army reserve on deployment. This means that whilst it looks like an increase of rocket artillery from one to two regiments it really isn’t. The only positives for the RA that I see is that… Read more »
Exactly!!! Hence the cuts, one if the batteries is going into suspended animation, N Battery to 7 RHA apparently, if memory serves. Whether 105 is any use or not it’s still another gun regiment gone that could have had the future MF gun. They are used, as I know you know, as the AS90 regiments of 7 Armd Bde and 2 Mechanized Bde were cut, so LG out in instead. 3 RHA, 4 RA. I guess better than disbandment. They did the same smoke and mirrors trick when the original MLRS reg was cut in A2020 2010 cuts and the… Read more »
Supacat had a vehicle at a recent arms show with a 105mm mounted on it. Used an American soft recoil system. The idea was to shoot & scoot. Prototype built in answer to A British request. I have no idea if the UK will order some.
What the hell, DM. You do love your acronyms, don’t you? Haha. There’s more in that para than in an episode of ‘Line of Duty’. I don’t know more than half of them! 🙁 And some don’t appear lookable upable.Just sayin’…
😆 all are lookable upable, otherwise I’d not be talking of them here. Acronyms are everywhere in MoD and I use them too as it saves much typing. Which are you not up to speed with? LMBCT Light Mechanized Brigade Combat Team, Future Soldiers new look 7 brigade, the desert rats. RHA Royal Horse Artillery. DRSBCT Deep Recc Strike Bde Combat Team, a renamed 1 Artillery Bde, which is an administrative formation. MoD say it’s also a merger with 1 Armoured Infantry Bde but that’s cobblers and spin as much of that bdes units are either not in the DRSBCT… Read more »
If you ever need to know something, details, ORBATS, ongoing or previous plans/changes or general chit chat Daniele is the site ninja on up to date military knowledge! I’m ex mil and would love to use Daniele as my encyclopaedia as his knowledge far outstrips mine and most others 😂👍!
DM for Minister of Defence!
Are K2 and Archer that far ahead of M109a7 that the latter is out of consideration?
The 109 is getting on a bit, although it’s been upgraded umpteen times. The other two are more modern and generally have a better speed and ops. range. The Archer has a very fast fire rate and can hit targets on land or sea It can also get out of trouble quickly
This version of the Mi09 is now based on the Bradley chassis so is basically a different vehicle from the A6. It is supposedly built with an upgrade path for the extended range canon which will swap put the 52 cal for a 58 cal and push the range out to previously impossible levels, especially with smart munitions. Other than the name 109 , those versions jave been upgraded so often it’s hard to compare models amongst users. Unfortunately AS-90 was starved of upgrade cash, it was due to get a longer barrell over a decade ago.
Cheers David. Starved for cash. That’s a new one isn’t it!😟
Given we used to own M109’s and then replaced them with AS90 it would probably be too embarrassing to then replace AS90 with M109.
We are modernizing the M270 and will be getting the cruise missile like Precision Strike missile ammunition as well, we are looking at replacements for the AS-90. As mentioned K9 is frontrunner and the Koreans have created an uprated A2 spec for British requirements with more engine power, remote control, more armour and higher accuracy (has 5 running wheels rather than 4 to handle the greater weight) also a longer gun being offered as an option which would boost range. K9A2 would at least be partially manufactured in Britain by Lockheed and Leonardo. (Interestingly the Polish opted for the lower… Read more »
I think Poland opted for the A1 simply for speed of delivery. They intended to just buy the Krab but have decided to buy K9s too to meet their accelerated delivery targets. Had the Ukrainian invasion hadn’t occurred they would have probably stuck with the original timeline and just Krabs. The way the Poles are ordering, they’re anticipating war sometime this decade.
They are picking up some of the already in production over the next year and a half (18 this year and 30 in 2023) but then theres a gap until they start the production of K9PL in 2024 in South Korea and 2026 in Poland with the K9A1 to be upgraded to K9PL. The Main difference with the PL version is it uses Polands domestic Topaz artillery management software as used in the Krabs as well as Polish radios. They are also ordering from Korea the K11 C2 countery battery radar/command vehicle and K10 ARV ammunition resupply vehicles. They already… Read more »
I read the headline and thought great, we’re getting some replacement artillery, and oh, that’s not the Hanwha one some people were saying we were likely to get.
Then I read on. The Americans are getting more artillery, not us. Nice, but what are we Brits doing about Ukraine replacements? Sticking with AS90 or moving forward? The new Mobile Fires project is supposed to be IOC in 2029. Surely the decision needs bringing forward, so we don’t waste money on a system scheduled for replacement. Perhaps ordering a few right now from S. Korea will help us decide.
So does this latest version bring the M109 up to the standard of the AS90? 😉
I will take the wink means your joking. AS90 needs a big upgrade to vehicle, systems, gun. So is it worth it or better getting a whole new system? Above my skills to answer that.
Yeh, tongue in cheek. I think the irony is that we bought AS90 at the time in preference to M109 which has been the subject of continuous upgrade over the years…..
Yet again a good system when new, no export orders and an upgrade path that rapidly hits a dead end.
This is what makes me angry. The French have sold lots of Cesars. What are they doing right?
Even worse… we bought AS90 to replace our M109’s.
That seems like a really good price for 40 sets. I’m not sure what’s in a set and how many support vehicles that is. Then later on 310 systems for $1.9 billion. As has been shown for slow moving lines against a conventional army artillery still plays a big part. The more accurate, longer range the better and of course mobility. Will this A7 version be able to get the same accuracy and range as the PZH2000? What will be interesting to find out is from operators in Ukraine that have used different systems to see what they say about… Read more »
Once the dust settles in Ukraine I can see training teams zipping off left, right and centre leading training cadres and tactics throughout western militaries. It will be on all manner of disciplines from Arty to AT, mortar & general manoeuvring in hostile environments – especially against peer opponents. The lessons learned there will shape land warfare techniques for the foreseeable future. I would be very surprised to see China make any sort of move on Taiwan in the near future as you can bet your bottom dollar they have watched Russian mistakes in Ukraine and noted many instances where… Read more »
From what I read China still doesn’t have the logistics to attack taiwan anyway. To succeed they would need to land a significant force by sea and that requires a massive sea lift capability, which they don’t currently have.
As Russia found, landing a light force by air only gets you so far, you need the heavy gear and supply chain to be shortly behind, which can only come by sea and in a war situation that would be an extremely dangerous and costly process.
Truly hope your report re ChiCom amphibious and logistics capabilities is correct. Follow on issue, given PLAN build rate, how long will status quo remain? Don’t believe annexation of Taiwan is terminus of ChiCom ambition for an instant.
Its not wholly new build, they are taking existing ones (some ln service, some in cold storage) slicing off the fighting compartment and welding it to a Bradley chassis. the previous A6 Paladin had modernization of the weapon itself this A7 version is about modernizing the running performance, getting a bit more electrical power for future upgradeability and dealing with the previous chassis being obsolete and non-conforming (didnt have any parts commonality with other army vehicles).
“includes a new chassis, engine, transmission, suspension, steering system, a new high voltage architecture, and improved survivability.”
Doesn’t the human body replace every cell over 7 year period?
Urban myth based upon the misinterpretation that the average age of a cell in the human body is 7 years. Some cells are never replaced, cerebral cortex, lenses, etc.
Where have the likes gone?
Some in the ear never recover from range days.
Sure mine doesn’t, it just adds more!
The A6 version essentially replaced the fighting compartment and gun while keeping the same chassis, the A7 version replaces the chassis while keeping the A6 fighting compartment.
Those Greek types got there about three or more thousand years ago.
A little off topic, My mate (ex army) sent me this video of a so called pro russian expert based in the Uk) on the war currently raging in the Ukraine. Peddles a load of misinformation and people actually see him as some sort of expert. What a load of tosh.
I hate that guy. A smug, smarmy, self-satisfied, pro-Russian, leftist pseudo-intellectual scumbag…….in my honest opinion. Ah, that feels better.
It’s funny how the hard-left still cling onto the memory of their workers paradise the USSR even though it ceased to exist 30 years ago.
Mate that’s because the hard left are fucking simpletons, shit bust!
For some strange reason in the US it’s the hard right that’s pro-Russia.
Actually it’s the hard-right and hard-left that support Putin, and it’s not just in America but the U.K. too. It’s quite surreal watching these two extreme wings of politics often supporting the same things. While both have a tendency to authoritarianism – and Putin is a classic dictator – it’s more the case that they will support anyone and anything that’s against western liberal democracy. Their support is driven by hatred of the west as it currently is.
They’re not just simpletons but pitifully clingy to their lost dream… pretty pathetic really 🤷🏻♂️
Jack, you must stop holding back on your thoughts!
Is that the fellow who was disbarred for fraud? Russian media makes use of many of these useful idiots. Modern day Philbys.
Matt, (First post has been sent to purgatory) Yeah, thats the geezer, Spike (Ex Artillery)sent the vid to me and asked for my thoughts. Jesus H Christ what a bluffer according to him: 1) Moscow using Paras have started a major offensive by making a major breakthrough at Donetsk in punching a hole in the Ukraine “Fortifications” which will end the war in the Ukraine. 2) Whilst the Ukraine is on its knees in the East, the Western media (mocks the British MOD) completely ignoring the Russian gains that by pushing the lie that the Ukraine are making a push… Read more »
Yep, what a pillock. Loads of this stuff going around. Well, whatever makes them happy.
That’s the sort of sad wanker the pathetic no mates echo chamber losers want to believe! But in war their will always be the weak brainless sheep being guided by the ones with the agenda, to include our own 5th type columnists and hard left nob jockies still dreaming about the USSR (to include young Labour clowns)!
Bravo. I’ve often mentioned the positions I read about regards “Young Labour” and, strangely, nobody on the Labour leaning side wants to dispute it!
I guess they loathe the Tories so much their own self loathing lunatics can be ignored. But worrying if that lot are the up and coming “Young Labour” Some of the positions of the LP membership are not much kop either. Anti NATO, Anti AUKUS, and so on.
What’s a 5th type columnists? Not heard that term before. Young labour I need to look up that. I take it they take normal labour to the left by about 3 miles. I’m Scottish so Tory is a bad word 😂😂. I’m a floater, offer me something nice and I’m yours.
I looked up what a fifth columnist is. A fifth column is any group of people who undermine a larger group from within, usually in favor of an enemy group or nation.
Not just in war. Pretty much the entire anti-vaxx/ plandemic/ 5G death masts conspiracy nutter brigade are supporting Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.
I don’t need to hear him, just looking at the godawful choice of wallpaper tells me he has no judgement whatsoever…
He doesn’t live in MK by any chance? 🤔
The guy seems to wear the same T-shirt for 3 days minimum from the video pictures. Must be as stinking as the decor. Everyone can have there opinion but when they share it they are open to criticism. Russian sources being his mistake. Most should know you can’t believe what they say. If they only lie about some things it takes away any credibility
I know everyone loves K9 but isn’t it actually the same generation as a109 or As90 with brave heart? I don’t see why we can’t modernise as90 and wait for ERCA to mature.
Poles are using Braveheart turrets on their Krab – which uses a K9 chassis – so in theory our existing AS90s could be upgraded with the Braveheart turret. I suspect it all comes down to the tricky balance of upgrade versus replace. It’s a tricky decision as there’s cost, risk, timeline, and capability all to consider, and none of these will be constant during the evaluation either.
So this M109A7… I take it we (UK) have one or two of these?